BELGRADE -- Serbian and Russian presidents Boris Tadić Dmitry Medvedev today laid wreaths at the Monument to the Second World War Liberators of Belgrade.
BELGRADE -- Serbian and Russian presidents Boris Tadić Dmitry Medvedev today laid wreaths at the Monument to the Second World War Liberators of Belgrade.
Source: B92, Beta, Tanjug
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The ceremony was also attended, among others, by First Deputy PM and Interior Minister Ivica Dačić, cabinet ministers Dragan Šutanovac, Vuk Jeremić, Rasim Ljajić, Russian Ambassador to Serbia Aleksandr Konuzin, and members of the Russian state delegation accompanying Medvedev on his official visit to Serbia this Tuesday.
Several hundred Belgraders welcomed Tadić and Medvedev with shouts of "Serbia-Russia". They also carried Serbian and Russian flags and posters with images of Russian PM Vladimir Putin and President Medvedev.
The two presidents also engaged in a short conversation with the veterans.
1,381 Partisans and 711 Red Army soldiers are buried at the cemetery that is now a memorial site.
For some unknown reason my last post was not published. It seems some people at B92 may have a different view of Draza, maybe it's because of the communist times they grew up in and what they were taught in school. Anyway, America was different back in WW2 days. The knew that backed the wrong man (Tito), so did the british and even de gaulle of France. These Balkan wars would have never happened had Draza's side had all the support from the allies. It's a shame!
(Obilic, 21 October 2009 16:18)
Was Tito a Stalinist and Stalin a Titoist? Both of them, like Hitler, were murderers. Those were crazy times. The WWI blew up the entire civilization as it was known all over Eastern Europe. The Enlightenment ideas that the state was a servant of the people, called to protect their lives. their freedom and their property were replaced with brutal ideologies calling for the “rights” of the classes, the races etc. Luckily the dictator’s friendship could not last. And while it was the Russian soldiers who broke the spine of Hitler’s Wehrmacht the US managed to restore some normalcy in Western Europe. Yugoslavia’s paradoxical luck came from the fact that Tito was strong enough and while he was happy to act as Stalin in the first years of his rule, he was not ready to act as a yes-man to Stalin. Once outside the Moscow camp, his regime was gradually Westernized and two generations of Yugoslavians enjoyed freedoms unheard of in the rest of the Soviet camp.
(nik, 21 October 2009 07:18)
Well lets not lose perspective with this Nik I can't agree with all of what you say. Apart from anything else its ilogical to call Tito Stalinist, just as it would be illogical to call Stalin Titoist.
Titoism to the slightly educated western mind meant a course between east and west, it meant a workers self management programme etc. Then under Tito there were different Titos in different eras, but its fair to say that an ordinary Jugoslav citizen would notice he relaxed political control as he aged. On the other hand we all know his abuses - Goli Otok, the murder of soldiers and improper trial of his opponents. On the other hand we also know that under Tito the media had more freedom than any country in e europe (towards 70's)
Yes some will still believe him the biggest hero ever. And others will invest all their soul in supporting Draza. But nor was Draza nothing. He may have had humble origins like Tito and perhaps the chattering clases (Kostunica types in Belgrade at the time) alongside royals would have benefitted by Mihailovic had he succeeded. Then again he had mostly the support of the working clases. I don't compare Draza personally to those accused of war crimes in this latest war for example - perhaps that is naievty on my part but it seems to me that Draza was not callous in this way.
These competing naratives and exaggerations on one side or the other are not close to the truth nor do they help Serbian society.
But on the point we should all remember the war dead and remember just what the last world war was about. It was about defeating tyranny and nazism. And we must continue to fight against that.
(bganon, 21 October 2009 01:12)
A fitting tribute to the men and women of the heroic Partizans led by Comrade Tito who fought the Nazis and their internal fascist collaborators, the Ustasa, SS Handzhar and SS Skenderbeg amoung others.
You Serb nationalists need to grow up. Draza Mihailovic was a nothing nobody who wanted a bourgeois (ex pig farmer) monarchy where the pampered capitalist classes would keep their privileged positions of power. No thanks.
Smrt faszicmu, sloboda narodu. I'm a proud man today. Thank you President Medvedev for your support.
(Janez-Beograd, 20 October 2009 21:55)
Srba, Cica Draza was awarded the highest honor by the United States after his death. . . This man was a hero and he should be found and given a proper burial. Dont be jealous because obviously war criminals and monsters came out of your nationality, which if I had to guess would be Croat, Albanian, or even American.
(Obilic, 20 October 2009 21:11)
Srba Come Come.How many Soviet citizens welcomed Hitler's armies after the Red Terror of the 1930s?Not sure how many were killed by the Nazis but a lot more were killed by their own people.Who divided Poland in 1939? Who wouldn't allow Soviet forces to retreat , who send all prisoners back to Gulag? Yugoslavia tragically fell under the Red Terror of Broz were thousands were killed as class enemies,so much terror that Tito himself admitted that people had lost all fear of death.Mihailovic was pro Western.Tito in 1941 hadn't defended Yugoslavia when the Germans attacked and in Kraljevo Communists opened fire on retreating Yugoslav troops.In the 1930s they plotted along the Fascist Ustasha to destroy Yugoslavia.
It is very symbolic that The Stalinist Red Army joined up with the Stalinist Tito Army to smash the Cetnik hold Mihailovic had over Serbia where the latter were defeated by the onslaught plus the fact that the British were arming the Partisans.
Ironic that today the successor to Stalin Medveddev is in Belgrade with Tadic whose own father was a political Commissar with no doubt innocent blood on his hands.History is often riddiculous crazy and illogical but let's not have the old chestnut that The Communists freed Yugosvia .They enslaved it and set it back 50 years.What is Tito's legacy today? An absurd mausoleum called the House of Flowers.Several hundred thousand Communist pensioners supported by a Democratic Serbia whose own descendants were slaughtered by these Stalinists.What remains of his Stalinist ideas? What did he leave behind? A nonsense called Brotherhood and Unity the silly Serbs believed in but not The Croats and a few aging statues here and there.
(Nik, 20 October 2009 19:43)
Why should Medvedev be speaking out on behalf of a nazi collaborator when 20 million Russians died at nazi hands?
(Srba, 20 October 2009 15:39)
"Srbo"
That is exactly my question regarding Yugoslav Partizans...They did not fight in defence of the Serbian people but on the side of Nazis & ustase against the Serbian people. I would hope that President Medvedev talks of General Mihailovich and the Royal Yugoslav army...the only legal army and anti-fascist movement in WWII Yugoslavia.
To remind you that the KPJ, (the political organ of the Partizan movement) and the Ustasha organization began their collaboration to destroy the Crown, and of coarse the Serbian people, back in 1932, 9 years prior to WWII. Also, to remind you, General Mihailovich at the head of the Royal Army, began their fight against the Nazis long before the Stalin-Hitler pact (which was honored by the KPJ as well) fell apart.
Get your facts straight.
(Likota, 20 October 2009 19:34)
Srba, Cica Draza was awarded the highest honor by the United States after his death. . . This man was a hero and he should be found and given a proper burial. Dont be jealous because obviously war criminals and monsters came out of your nationality, which if I had to guess would be Croat, Albanian, or even American.
(Obilic, 20 October 2009 21:11)
Srba Come Come.How many Soviet citizens welcomed Hitler's armies after the Red Terror of the 1930s?Not sure how many were killed by the Nazis but a lot more were killed by their own people.Who divided Poland in 1939? Who wouldn't allow Soviet forces to retreat , who send all prisoners back to Gulag? Yugoslavia tragically fell under the Red Terror of Broz were thousands were killed as class enemies,so much terror that Tito himself admitted that people had lost all fear of death.Mihailovic was pro Western.Tito in 1941 hadn't defended Yugoslavia when the Germans attacked and in Kraljevo Communists opened fire on retreating Yugoslav troops.In the 1930s they plotted along the Fascist Ustasha to destroy Yugoslavia.
It is very symbolic that The Stalinist Red Army joined up with the Stalinist Tito Army to smash the Cetnik hold Mihailovic had over Serbia where the latter were defeated by the onslaught plus the fact that the British were arming the Partisans.
Ironic that today the successor to Stalin Medveddev is in Belgrade with Tadic whose own father was a political Commissar with no doubt innocent blood on his hands.History is often riddiculous crazy and illogical but let's not have the old chestnut that The Communists freed Yugosvia .They enslaved it and set it back 50 years.What is Tito's legacy today? An absurd mausoleum called the House of Flowers.Several hundred thousand Communist pensioners supported by a Democratic Serbia whose own descendants were slaughtered by these Stalinists.What remains of his Stalinist ideas? What did he leave behind? A nonsense called Brotherhood and Unity the silly Serbs believed in but not The Croats and a few aging statues here and there.
(Nik, 20 October 2009 19:43)
Why should Medvedev be speaking out on behalf of a nazi collaborator when 20 million Russians died at nazi hands?
(Srba, 20 October 2009 15:39)
"Srbo"
That is exactly my question regarding Yugoslav Partizans...They did not fight in defence of the Serbian people but on the side of Nazis & ustase against the Serbian people. I would hope that President Medvedev talks of General Mihailovich and the Royal Yugoslav army...the only legal army and anti-fascist movement in WWII Yugoslavia.
To remind you that the KPJ, (the political organ of the Partizan movement) and the Ustasha organization began their collaboration to destroy the Crown, and of coarse the Serbian people, back in 1932, 9 years prior to WWII. Also, to remind you, General Mihailovich at the head of the Royal Army, began their fight against the Nazis long before the Stalin-Hitler pact (which was honored by the KPJ as well) fell apart.
Get your facts straight.
(Likota, 20 October 2009 19:34)
A fitting tribute to the men and women of the heroic Partizans led by Comrade Tito who fought the Nazis and their internal fascist collaborators, the Ustasa, SS Handzhar and SS Skenderbeg amoung others.
You Serb nationalists need to grow up. Draza Mihailovic was a nothing nobody who wanted a bourgeois (ex pig farmer) monarchy where the pampered capitalist classes would keep their privileged positions of power. No thanks.
Smrt faszicmu, sloboda narodu. I'm a proud man today. Thank you President Medvedev for your support.
(Janez-Beograd, 20 October 2009 21:55)
Well lets not lose perspective with this Nik I can't agree with all of what you say. Apart from anything else its ilogical to call Tito Stalinist, just as it would be illogical to call Stalin Titoist.
Titoism to the slightly educated western mind meant a course between east and west, it meant a workers self management programme etc. Then under Tito there were different Titos in different eras, but its fair to say that an ordinary Jugoslav citizen would notice he relaxed political control as he aged. On the other hand we all know his abuses - Goli Otok, the murder of soldiers and improper trial of his opponents. On the other hand we also know that under Tito the media had more freedom than any country in e europe (towards 70's)
Yes some will still believe him the biggest hero ever. And others will invest all their soul in supporting Draza. But nor was Draza nothing. He may have had humble origins like Tito and perhaps the chattering clases (Kostunica types in Belgrade at the time) alongside royals would have benefitted by Mihailovic had he succeeded. Then again he had mostly the support of the working clases. I don't compare Draza personally to those accused of war crimes in this latest war for example - perhaps that is naievty on my part but it seems to me that Draza was not callous in this way.
These competing naratives and exaggerations on one side or the other are not close to the truth nor do they help Serbian society.
But on the point we should all remember the war dead and remember just what the last world war was about. It was about defeating tyranny and nazism. And we must continue to fight against that.
(bganon, 21 October 2009 01:12)
Was Tito a Stalinist and Stalin a Titoist? Both of them, like Hitler, were murderers. Those were crazy times. The WWI blew up the entire civilization as it was known all over Eastern Europe. The Enlightenment ideas that the state was a servant of the people, called to protect their lives. their freedom and their property were replaced with brutal ideologies calling for the “rights” of the classes, the races etc. Luckily the dictator’s friendship could not last. And while it was the Russian soldiers who broke the spine of Hitler’s Wehrmacht the US managed to restore some normalcy in Western Europe. Yugoslavia’s paradoxical luck came from the fact that Tito was strong enough and while he was happy to act as Stalin in the first years of his rule, he was not ready to act as a yes-man to Stalin. Once outside the Moscow camp, his regime was gradually Westernized and two generations of Yugoslavians enjoyed freedoms unheard of in the rest of the Soviet camp.
(nik, 21 October 2009 07:18)
For some unknown reason my last post was not published. It seems some people at B92 may have a different view of Draza, maybe it's because of the communist times they grew up in and what they were taught in school. Anyway, America was different back in WW2 days. The knew that backed the wrong man (Tito), so did the british and even de gaulle of France. These Balkan wars would have never happened had Draza's side had all the support from the allies. It's a shame!
(Obilic, 21 October 2009 16:18)
Srba Come Come.How many Soviet citizens welcomed Hitler's armies after the Red Terror of the 1930s?Not sure how many were killed by the Nazis but a lot more were killed by their own people.Who divided Poland in 1939? Who wouldn't allow Soviet forces to retreat , who send all prisoners back to Gulag? Yugoslavia tragically fell under the Red Terror of Broz were thousands were killed as class enemies,so much terror that Tito himself admitted that people had lost all fear of death.Mihailovic was pro Western.Tito in 1941 hadn't defended Yugoslavia when the Germans attacked and in Kraljevo Communists opened fire on retreating Yugoslav troops.In the 1930s they plotted along the Fascist Ustasha to destroy Yugoslavia.
It is very symbolic that The Stalinist Red Army joined up with the Stalinist Tito Army to smash the Cetnik hold Mihailovic had over Serbia where the latter were defeated by the onslaught plus the fact that the British were arming the Partisans.
Ironic that today the successor to Stalin Medveddev is in Belgrade with Tadic whose own father was a political Commissar with no doubt innocent blood on his hands.History is often riddiculous crazy and illogical but let's not have the old chestnut that The Communists freed Yugosvia .They enslaved it and set it back 50 years.What is Tito's legacy today? An absurd mausoleum called the House of Flowers.Several hundred thousand Communist pensioners supported by a Democratic Serbia whose own descendants were slaughtered by these Stalinists.What remains of his Stalinist ideas? What did he leave behind? A nonsense called Brotherhood and Unity the silly Serbs believed in but not The Croats and a few aging statues here and there.
(Nik, 20 October 2009 19:43)
A fitting tribute to the men and women of the heroic Partizans led by Comrade Tito who fought the Nazis and their internal fascist collaborators, the Ustasa, SS Handzhar and SS Skenderbeg amoung others.
You Serb nationalists need to grow up. Draza Mihailovic was a nothing nobody who wanted a bourgeois (ex pig farmer) monarchy where the pampered capitalist classes would keep their privileged positions of power. No thanks.
Smrt faszicmu, sloboda narodu. I'm a proud man today. Thank you President Medvedev for your support.
(Janez-Beograd, 20 October 2009 21:55)
Why should Medvedev be speaking out on behalf of a nazi collaborator when 20 million Russians died at nazi hands?
(Srba, 20 October 2009 15:39)
"Srbo"
That is exactly my question regarding Yugoslav Partizans...They did not fight in defence of the Serbian people but on the side of Nazis & ustase against the Serbian people. I would hope that President Medvedev talks of General Mihailovich and the Royal Yugoslav army...the only legal army and anti-fascist movement in WWII Yugoslavia.
To remind you that the KPJ, (the political organ of the Partizan movement) and the Ustasha organization began their collaboration to destroy the Crown, and of coarse the Serbian people, back in 1932, 9 years prior to WWII. Also, to remind you, General Mihailovich at the head of the Royal Army, began their fight against the Nazis long before the Stalin-Hitler pact (which was honored by the KPJ as well) fell apart.
Get your facts straight.
(Likota, 20 October 2009 19:34)
Well lets not lose perspective with this Nik I can't agree with all of what you say. Apart from anything else its ilogical to call Tito Stalinist, just as it would be illogical to call Stalin Titoist.
Titoism to the slightly educated western mind meant a course between east and west, it meant a workers self management programme etc. Then under Tito there were different Titos in different eras, but its fair to say that an ordinary Jugoslav citizen would notice he relaxed political control as he aged. On the other hand we all know his abuses - Goli Otok, the murder of soldiers and improper trial of his opponents. On the other hand we also know that under Tito the media had more freedom than any country in e europe (towards 70's)
Yes some will still believe him the biggest hero ever. And others will invest all their soul in supporting Draza. But nor was Draza nothing. He may have had humble origins like Tito and perhaps the chattering clases (Kostunica types in Belgrade at the time) alongside royals would have benefitted by Mihailovic had he succeeded. Then again he had mostly the support of the working clases. I don't compare Draza personally to those accused of war crimes in this latest war for example - perhaps that is naievty on my part but it seems to me that Draza was not callous in this way.
These competing naratives and exaggerations on one side or the other are not close to the truth nor do they help Serbian society.
But on the point we should all remember the war dead and remember just what the last world war was about. It was about defeating tyranny and nazism. And we must continue to fight against that.
(bganon, 21 October 2009 01:12)
For some unknown reason my last post was not published. It seems some people at B92 may have a different view of Draza, maybe it's because of the communist times they grew up in and what they were taught in school. Anyway, America was different back in WW2 days. The knew that backed the wrong man (Tito), so did the british and even de gaulle of France. These Balkan wars would have never happened had Draza's side had all the support from the allies. It's a shame!
(Obilic, 21 October 2009 16:18)
Srba, Cica Draza was awarded the highest honor by the United States after his death. . . This man was a hero and he should be found and given a proper burial. Dont be jealous because obviously war criminals and monsters came out of your nationality, which if I had to guess would be Croat, Albanian, or even American.
(Obilic, 20 October 2009 21:11)
Was Tito a Stalinist and Stalin a Titoist? Both of them, like Hitler, were murderers. Those were crazy times. The WWI blew up the entire civilization as it was known all over Eastern Europe. The Enlightenment ideas that the state was a servant of the people, called to protect their lives. their freedom and their property were replaced with brutal ideologies calling for the “rights” of the classes, the races etc. Luckily the dictator’s friendship could not last. And while it was the Russian soldiers who broke the spine of Hitler’s Wehrmacht the US managed to restore some normalcy in Western Europe. Yugoslavia’s paradoxical luck came from the fact that Tito was strong enough and while he was happy to act as Stalin in the first years of his rule, he was not ready to act as a yes-man to Stalin. Once outside the Moscow camp, his regime was gradually Westernized and two generations of Yugoslavians enjoyed freedoms unheard of in the rest of the Soviet camp.
(nik, 21 October 2009 07:18)