LONDON -- UK PM Gordon Brown says NATO and the EU must reassess their relations with the Kremlin to prevent further "Russian aggression".
Source: BBC
Close the entire text of the article here
Brown, writing in the Observer, urged the EU to do a "root and branch" review of relations with the Kremlin.
On Saturday President Dmitry Medvedev and Brown spoke by phone as Russia moved to ease tensions with Europe.
Brown wrote in Sunday's Observer newspaper one day ahead of a summit of European heads of state to discuss the South Ossetia crisis.
The conflict in the region began on August 7 when Georgia tried to regain control of South Ossetia by force, which was followed by a Russian counter-attack deep into Georgia.
Brown said: "When Russia has a grievance over an issue such as South Ossetia, it should act multilaterally by consent rather than unilaterally by force."
He went on: "My message to Russia is simple. If you want to be welcome at the top table of organizations such as the G8, OECD and WTO, you must accept that with rights come responsibilities.
"We want Russia to be a good partner in the G8 and other organizations, but it cannot pick and choose which rules to adhere to.
"That is why I will argue tomorrow that Russia should accept Georgia's territorial integrity and international mechanisms for addressing these conflicts, and withdraw troops to their previous positions.
"And, in the light of Russian actions, the EU should review - root and branch - our relationship with Russia."
He added: "We are also reflecting on the NATO response. We must re-evaluate the alliance's relationship with Russia, and intensify our support to Georgia and others who may face Russian aggression."
Brown also said the summit "must add urgency to the work on Europe's energy agenda".
"We must more rapidly build relationships with other producers of oil and gas," Brown said.
The prime minister said he had told Mr Medvedev to expect a "determined response" from European leaders.
During their conversation, Medvedev said Russia was in favor of the deployment to Georgia of additional monitors from the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe.
In a separate development, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov spoke to his German counterpart Frank-Walter Steinmeier.
They agreed on the need to "put an end to attempts to use the situation surrounding Georgia... to raise tensions in Europe by speculating on non-existent threats concerning other post-Soviet countries", said the Russian foreign ministry.
bmrusila:"Finland and I may assure you that they do not consider joining NATO."
Few decades ago The Scandinavian countries did not consider seriously joining the EU (with Danmark being a single exception)Today all except Norway are Eu Members. Sweden and Finland are not yet NATO members, but sooner or later they will join! In there onwn time. They are in a sense members of NATO. Should they get attacked it is unlikely the NATO countries to stay neutral! While some of them may hope for the opposite - the Scandinavians to stay neutral in case of a major war between NATO and Russia!
This is typical Scandinavian privileged way: Norway is in NATO, not in EU, but in the Schengen zone, Sweden and Finland are in EU, but not in NATO. Sweden and Danmark are in EU, but not in the Eurozone.
Yet the tendency is clear. Europe of the many independant nations is a past. It is turning into an open space with a single currency, single citizenship etc. It needs a single deffence sysytem, which it could not provide without the US.
(nik, 2 September 2008 10:15)
Joe, here is the latest news from Helsinki concerning NATO joining (check the link above). The thing is that this wish for joining came only from one man, so called diplomat appointed in Georgia crises, but Alexander Stub seems to be very young, inexperienced and a bit euphoric man.
(bmrusila, 1 September 2008 19:16)
I routinely access BBC, Spiegel, DieWelt, Figaro, Le Monde, Liberation just to name you few. I try to find that article on Finland's consideration. It was on Friday or Saturday. I don't remember on which site it was. The president and if I remember the PM spoke about it. I will still try to find it for you. I was very surprised by it.
(Joe, 1 September 2008 17:06)
Also I was stunned to read yesterday that even Finland is considering joining NATO because they don't feel safe anymore as a neutral country due to Russia's agressivness.
(Joe)
I would like you to send a link about Finland’s consideration to join NATO after latest events. I am very much related to Finland thus regularly follow the news from Finland and I may assure you that they do not consider joining NATO. The majority of Finns is against NATO, so I really don’t know where you get this information. I also recommend you to find information on great bilateral relation between Russia and Finland.
(bmrusila, 1 September 2008 15:22)
I am a bit surprised (and disappointed) that no one here has mentioned the latest news coming out of jolly old russia (hint hint, b92). i refer to yet another "accidental" death of a human rights advocate at the hands of their "nice" police. and yes, it does hit way too close to home.
again and again, i try to make clear that it is not ethnicities or countries that are our enemies, but surely certain govt's, and related mentalities that these govt's represent and foster. it is ridiculous and inappropriate to be anti-russian, but their present govt. is utterly despicable, and it is hard to ignore what kind of regimes russia has had, for say, the last few hundred years.
we must stand up to this very dangerous russian regime, while attempting to support and promote democratic forces and values there, support the brave! activists. of course it is an uphill battle, but whoever said that it would be easy...
roberto
robertoruss@yahoo.com
(roberto, 1 September 2008 07:48)
Dashnori i Satam:
> Russia cannot cut oiL one, it needs the money, two it has contracts and NEEDS to be seen a reliable supplier.
The mere threat to is enough as is apparent from the collapse of support for sanctions from both France & Germany.
And never say never.
> AMBO and Trans Adriatic Pipelines will come in play by 2011 (both through Pro-West Albania.) Once pipelines are in place, Russia will get some competition and cannot play that game the same way.
AMBO is not about competition - as the price of it's oil is expected to be significantly higher than the other pipelines, just cheaper than shipping it through the bosphorus.
AMBO is all about supply - in addition to the other pipelines. Even though it's oil will be more expensive, projected increases in supply coming from Russia/Caucauses are expected to be sufficient to meet the capacities of all the pipelines.
Energy card remains.
> unlike Russia where only Putin decided.
Saakashvili's ill-fated attempt to reclaim South Ossetia was a direct violation of the cease-fire that Georgia had agreed to in the UN.
Russian peacekeepers present in South Ossetia as a result of that agreement were killed in that assault.
If Russia hadn't reacted 'immediately', Saakashvili's imitation of 'Operation Storm' would've been a 'fait accompli'.
The decision to intervene was correct.
Only the scale of the intervention is debatable.
(peter, sydney, 1 September 2008 07:46)
I responded already to the same question of yours recently. I will repeat it once more. Russia did not have the means for foreign invasions or bases in the last 18-20 years. Lately however they approached Cuba for bases but Cuba declined.
Also I was stunned to read yesterday that even Finland is considering joining NATO because they don't feel safe anymore as a neutral country due to Russia's agressivness.
You are a great defender of Russia (seems like their lawyer) but can you tell me why all their neighbors are so afraid of them? No small country is ever afraid of a peaceful big country except in case of Russia.
Look Belgium is not afraid of France or Germany or England. Danemark or Austria or the Czech Republic are not afraid of Germany. Why your dear Russia is so bellicose?
(Joe, 1 September 2008 02:32)
Nothing will come out of tomorrow's EU meeting. They will ask Russia "to be nice" to their small neighbors, "respect them" and the EU countries will be good partners and they will promise to pay their oil and gas bills promptely like always. It will be a confirmation for the Russians that they are solidely in the saddle and can continue their imperialistic policies.
(Joe, 31 August 2008 19:26)
So what exactly do you expect the EU to do with Russia?Go to war for Georgia?
Saakashvilli is either a fool or a gambler or he acted
with the full knowledge and connivance of the US.It seems to me that the US with the number of military advisers in Georgia couldn't be totally in the dark of what the Georgian president was about to do.
Imagine a hypothetical situation where Georgia was a member of NATO and the west had to intervene militarily on behalf of Georgia.Think of the consequences.
You define Russia as imperialist without giving an
explanation as to how you arrive at your definition.How
many military bases do the Russians have in foreign countries?How many countries did they attack the last twenty years?
The recent events in Caucasus
is the result of US policies towards Russia.The last straw
for the Russians is the US decision to install missile systems in Poland & Czech republic.How would the US feel if the Russians decided to install intercontinental missiles in Iran or N Korea?
Russia can hurt as much the West as they can hurt her.
(Leonidas, 31 August 2008 21:22)
I basically agree with you and indirectly - as I can read between your lines - you agree with me that Europe is pretty much powerless because its leaders have to consider the basic needs of their civilians. We all know this.
I just want to add one thing: Nothing will come out of tomorrow's EU meeting. They will ask Russia "to be nice" to their small neighbors, "respect them" and the EU countries will be good partners and they will promise to pay their oil and gas bills promptely like always. It will be a confirmation for the Russians that they are solidely in the saddle and can continue their imperialistic policies.
(Joe, 31 August 2008 19:26)
Russia cannot cut oiL one, it needs the money, two it has contracts and NEEDS to be seen a reliable supplier.
Two, AMBO and Trans Adriatic Pipelines will come in play by 2011 (both through Pro-West Albania.) Once pipelines are in place, Russia will get some competition and cannot play that game the same way.
When NATO attacked Serbs: It was done after months of talks, warnings to stop the killings and through NATO with 20+ members agreeing, unlike Russia where only Putin decided.
(Dashnori i Satam, 31 August 2008 19:12)
First of all, you know that America is thousands of kilometers away from Europe and does not have any real threat from Russia that it cannot deal with, as opposed to Europe who is right next door to them and does not have the luxury of an ocean between them or tons of ice in beween.
Secondly, the situation with Russia at the moment is fragile. While I do not agree with their new imperialist look and fear that another European country may be next, Europe is not self-sufficient like the States and relies on Russia for oil and gas. Unprecedented action (both diplomatic and coercive would be detrimental to the people) needs to be considered carefully before standing up to Russia without fear of repercussions, and a harsh, abrasive reaction (a la Bush or MacCaine), would hurt Europe even more than Russia, while America feels nothing, like with WW2 it was.
While of course, Poles, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Latvians, Estonians, Czechs, Ukrainians and Finns have felt Soviet brutality and should stand up to Russian aggression, I disagree that the state leaders make such actions and statements that put us at risk, when we have Germany, France, Netherlands and UK far behind the CEE countries that be hit first, but at least they are considering the basic needs of their civilians, which Russia could quite easily cut. You know how the Russians are.
(Peter Sudyka, 31 August 2008 18:41)
Brown is right except that the EU is powerless. The Georgia crisis shows more than any prior crisis how vulnerable and powerless Europe is. I remember the comments on French and German sites of few years ago - during the Chirac and Schroeder era - how the EU will become the first and uncontested superpower of the world. Well the whole thing was just rhetoric. Europe will need the protection and support of the US in the future as much as during the first Cold War.
(Joe, 31 August 2008 14:49)
My fellow countryman is an embarrasment. He stood and agreed with 'Blur' when it's US masters asked for assistance to illegally bomb Serbia.
He is an outright hypocrite of astronomical proportion. Thank God I am no longer in the UK.
Brown you are a disgrace, the Scottish National Party will wipe the floor with you come the next General. Election.
(Mr. David J. Jones, 31 August 2008 13:17)
> Brown said: "When Russia has a grievance over an issue such as South Ossetia, it should act multilaterally by consent rather than unilaterally by force."
Is it my imagination, or is hypocrisy becoming the norm rather than the exception - especially when it comes to the so-called 'leaders of the western world'.
> The prime minister said he had told Mr Medvedev to expect a "determined response" from European leaders.
Seems that 'determined response' is wilting even as we speak. Both France & germany appear to be 'backing away' from any talk of 'sanctions' being imposed.
Something to do with this perhaps?
>His comments came amid fears Russia could cut oil and gas flows in the row over Georgia.
And Mr Brown's response?
> "We must more rapidly build relationships with other producers of oil and gas," Brown said.
Europe & the UK can always do so Mr Brown. Of course the price of energy will be higher if you deny yourselves access to cheap russian supplies. And of course the little problem that all this is occurring during the worst economic crisis the UK has faced for 60 years can be safely ignored - can't it Mr Brown.
So let's look at the west's options to counter 'russian aggression' in the caucauses.
Military intervention? Nope.
Economic sanctions? Nope.
Diplomatic intervention? Nope.
Empty rhetoric?
Now that you can do.
(peter, sydney, 31 August 2008 11:20)
Nothing will come out of tomorrow's EU meeting. They will ask Russia "to be nice" to their small neighbors, "respect them" and the EU countries will be good partners and they will promise to pay their oil and gas bills promptely like always. It will be a confirmation for the Russians that they are solidely in the saddle and can continue their imperialistic policies.
(Joe, 31 August 2008 19:26)
So what exactly do you expect the EU to do with Russia?Go to war for Georgia?
Saakashvilli is either a fool or a gambler or he acted
with the full knowledge and connivance of the US.It seems to me that the US with the number of military advisers in Georgia couldn't be totally in the dark of what the Georgian president was about to do.
Imagine a hypothetical situation where Georgia was a member of NATO and the west had to intervene militarily on behalf of Georgia.Think of the consequences.
You define Russia as imperialist without giving an
explanation as to how you arrive at your definition.How
many military bases do the Russians have in foreign countries?How many countries did they attack the last twenty years?
The recent events in Caucasus
is the result of US policies towards Russia.The last straw
for the Russians is the US decision to install missile systems in Poland & Czech republic.How would the US feel if the Russians decided to install intercontinental missiles in Iran or N Korea?
Russia can hurt as much the West as they can hurt her.
(Leonidas, 31 August 2008 21:22)
> Brown said: "When Russia has a grievance over an issue such as South Ossetia, it should act multilaterally by consent rather than unilaterally by force."
Is it my imagination, or is hypocrisy becoming the norm rather than the exception - especially when it comes to the so-called 'leaders of the western world'.
> The prime minister said he had told Mr Medvedev to expect a "determined response" from European leaders.
Seems that 'determined response' is wilting even as we speak. Both France & germany appear to be 'backing away' from any talk of 'sanctions' being imposed.
Something to do with this perhaps?
>His comments came amid fears Russia could cut oil and gas flows in the row over Georgia.
And Mr Brown's response?
> "We must more rapidly build relationships with other producers of oil and gas," Brown said.
Europe & the UK can always do so Mr Brown. Of course the price of energy will be higher if you deny yourselves access to cheap russian supplies. And of course the little problem that all this is occurring during the worst economic crisis the UK has faced for 60 years can be safely ignored - can't it Mr Brown.
So let's look at the west's options to counter 'russian aggression' in the caucauses.
Military intervention? Nope.
Economic sanctions? Nope.
Diplomatic intervention? Nope.
Empty rhetoric?
Now that you can do.
(peter, sydney, 31 August 2008 11:20)
My fellow countryman is an embarrasment. He stood and agreed with 'Blur' when it's US masters asked for assistance to illegally bomb Serbia.
He is an outright hypocrite of astronomical proportion. Thank God I am no longer in the UK.
Brown you are a disgrace, the Scottish National Party will wipe the floor with you come the next General. Election.
(Mr. David J. Jones, 31 August 2008 13:17)
First of all, you know that America is thousands of kilometers away from Europe and does not have any real threat from Russia that it cannot deal with, as opposed to Europe who is right next door to them and does not have the luxury of an ocean between them or tons of ice in beween.
Secondly, the situation with Russia at the moment is fragile. While I do not agree with their new imperialist look and fear that another European country may be next, Europe is not self-sufficient like the States and relies on Russia for oil and gas. Unprecedented action (both diplomatic and coercive would be detrimental to the people) needs to be considered carefully before standing up to Russia without fear of repercussions, and a harsh, abrasive reaction (a la Bush or MacCaine), would hurt Europe even more than Russia, while America feels nothing, like with WW2 it was.
While of course, Poles, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Latvians, Estonians, Czechs, Ukrainians and Finns have felt Soviet brutality and should stand up to Russian aggression, I disagree that the state leaders make such actions and statements that put us at risk, when we have Germany, France, Netherlands and UK far behind the CEE countries that be hit first, but at least they are considering the basic needs of their civilians, which Russia could quite easily cut. You know how the Russians are.
(Peter Sudyka, 31 August 2008 18:41)
Brown is right except that the EU is powerless. The Georgia crisis shows more than any prior crisis how vulnerable and powerless Europe is. I remember the comments on French and German sites of few years ago - during the Chirac and Schroeder era - how the EU will become the first and uncontested superpower of the world. Well the whole thing was just rhetoric. Europe will need the protection and support of the US in the future as much as during the first Cold War.
(Joe, 31 August 2008 14:49)
I responded already to the same question of yours recently. I will repeat it once more. Russia did not have the means for foreign invasions or bases in the last 18-20 years. Lately however they approached Cuba for bases but Cuba declined.
Also I was stunned to read yesterday that even Finland is considering joining NATO because they don't feel safe anymore as a neutral country due to Russia's agressivness.
You are a great defender of Russia (seems like their lawyer) but can you tell me why all their neighbors are so afraid of them? No small country is ever afraid of a peaceful big country except in case of Russia.
Look Belgium is not afraid of France or Germany or England. Danemark or Austria or the Czech Republic are not afraid of Germany. Why your dear Russia is so bellicose?
(Joe, 1 September 2008 02:32)
Russia cannot cut oiL one, it needs the money, two it has contracts and NEEDS to be seen a reliable supplier.
Two, AMBO and Trans Adriatic Pipelines will come in play by 2011 (both through Pro-West Albania.) Once pipelines are in place, Russia will get some competition and cannot play that game the same way.
When NATO attacked Serbs: It was done after months of talks, warnings to stop the killings and through NATO with 20+ members agreeing, unlike Russia where only Putin decided.
(Dashnori i Satam, 31 August 2008 19:12)
Also I was stunned to read yesterday that even Finland is considering joining NATO because they don't feel safe anymore as a neutral country due to Russia's agressivness.
(Joe)
I would like you to send a link about Finland’s consideration to join NATO after latest events. I am very much related to Finland thus regularly follow the news from Finland and I may assure you that they do not consider joining NATO. The majority of Finns is against NATO, so I really don’t know where you get this information. I also recommend you to find information on great bilateral relation between Russia and Finland.
(bmrusila, 1 September 2008 15:22)
I basically agree with you and indirectly - as I can read between your lines - you agree with me that Europe is pretty much powerless because its leaders have to consider the basic needs of their civilians. We all know this.
I just want to add one thing: Nothing will come out of tomorrow's EU meeting. They will ask Russia "to be nice" to their small neighbors, "respect them" and the EU countries will be good partners and they will promise to pay their oil and gas bills promptely like always. It will be a confirmation for the Russians that they are solidely in the saddle and can continue their imperialistic policies.
(Joe, 31 August 2008 19:26)
Joe, here is the latest news from Helsinki concerning NATO joining (check the link above). The thing is that this wish for joining came only from one man, so called diplomat appointed in Georgia crises, but Alexander Stub seems to be very young, inexperienced and a bit euphoric man.
(bmrusila, 1 September 2008 19:16)
I am a bit surprised (and disappointed) that no one here has mentioned the latest news coming out of jolly old russia (hint hint, b92). i refer to yet another "accidental" death of a human rights advocate at the hands of their "nice" police. and yes, it does hit way too close to home.
again and again, i try to make clear that it is not ethnicities or countries that are our enemies, but surely certain govt's, and related mentalities that these govt's represent and foster. it is ridiculous and inappropriate to be anti-russian, but their present govt. is utterly despicable, and it is hard to ignore what kind of regimes russia has had, for say, the last few hundred years.
we must stand up to this very dangerous russian regime, while attempting to support and promote democratic forces and values there, support the brave! activists. of course it is an uphill battle, but whoever said that it would be easy...
roberto
robertoruss@yahoo.com
(roberto, 1 September 2008 07:48)
Dashnori i Satam:
> Russia cannot cut oiL one, it needs the money, two it has contracts and NEEDS to be seen a reliable supplier.
The mere threat to is enough as is apparent from the collapse of support for sanctions from both France & Germany.
And never say never.
> AMBO and Trans Adriatic Pipelines will come in play by 2011 (both through Pro-West Albania.) Once pipelines are in place, Russia will get some competition and cannot play that game the same way.
AMBO is not about competition - as the price of it's oil is expected to be significantly higher than the other pipelines, just cheaper than shipping it through the bosphorus.
AMBO is all about supply - in addition to the other pipelines. Even though it's oil will be more expensive, projected increases in supply coming from Russia/Caucauses are expected to be sufficient to meet the capacities of all the pipelines.
Energy card remains.
> unlike Russia where only Putin decided.
Saakashvili's ill-fated attempt to reclaim South Ossetia was a direct violation of the cease-fire that Georgia had agreed to in the UN.
Russian peacekeepers present in South Ossetia as a result of that agreement were killed in that assault.
If Russia hadn't reacted 'immediately', Saakashvili's imitation of 'Operation Storm' would've been a 'fait accompli'.
The decision to intervene was correct.
Only the scale of the intervention is debatable.
(peter, sydney, 1 September 2008 07:46)
I routinely access BBC, Spiegel, DieWelt, Figaro, Le Monde, Liberation just to name you few. I try to find that article on Finland's consideration. It was on Friday or Saturday. I don't remember on which site it was. The president and if I remember the PM spoke about it. I will still try to find it for you. I was very surprised by it.
(Joe, 1 September 2008 17:06)
bmrusila:"Finland and I may assure you that they do not consider joining NATO."
Few decades ago The Scandinavian countries did not consider seriously joining the EU (with Danmark being a single exception)Today all except Norway are Eu Members. Sweden and Finland are not yet NATO members, but sooner or later they will join! In there onwn time. They are in a sense members of NATO. Should they get attacked it is unlikely the NATO countries to stay neutral! While some of them may hope for the opposite - the Scandinavians to stay neutral in case of a major war between NATO and Russia!
This is typical Scandinavian privileged way: Norway is in NATO, not in EU, but in the Schengen zone, Sweden and Finland are in EU, but not in NATO. Sweden and Danmark are in EU, but not in the Eurozone.
Yet the tendency is clear. Europe of the many independant nations is a past. It is turning into an open space with a single currency, single citizenship etc. It needs a single deffence sysytem, which it could not provide without the US.
(nik, 2 September 2008 10:15)
Russia cannot cut oiL one, it needs the money, two it has contracts and NEEDS to be seen a reliable supplier.
Two, AMBO and Trans Adriatic Pipelines will come in play by 2011 (both through Pro-West Albania.) Once pipelines are in place, Russia will get some competition and cannot play that game the same way.
When NATO attacked Serbs: It was done after months of talks, warnings to stop the killings and through NATO with 20+ members agreeing, unlike Russia where only Putin decided.
(Dashnori i Satam, 31 August 2008 19:12)
I basically agree with you and indirectly - as I can read between your lines - you agree with me that Europe is pretty much powerless because its leaders have to consider the basic needs of their civilians. We all know this.
I just want to add one thing: Nothing will come out of tomorrow's EU meeting. They will ask Russia "to be nice" to their small neighbors, "respect them" and the EU countries will be good partners and they will promise to pay their oil and gas bills promptely like always. It will be a confirmation for the Russians that they are solidely in the saddle and can continue their imperialistic policies.
(Joe, 31 August 2008 19:26)
Brown is right except that the EU is powerless. The Georgia crisis shows more than any prior crisis how vulnerable and powerless Europe is. I remember the comments on French and German sites of few years ago - during the Chirac and Schroeder era - how the EU will become the first and uncontested superpower of the world. Well the whole thing was just rhetoric. Europe will need the protection and support of the US in the future as much as during the first Cold War.
(Joe, 31 August 2008 14:49)
Joe, here is the latest news from Helsinki concerning NATO joining (check the link above). The thing is that this wish for joining came only from one man, so called diplomat appointed in Georgia crises, but Alexander Stub seems to be very young, inexperienced and a bit euphoric man.
(bmrusila, 1 September 2008 19:16)
I am a bit surprised (and disappointed) that no one here has mentioned the latest news coming out of jolly old russia (hint hint, b92). i refer to yet another "accidental" death of a human rights advocate at the hands of their "nice" police. and yes, it does hit way too close to home.
again and again, i try to make clear that it is not ethnicities or countries that are our enemies, but surely certain govt's, and related mentalities that these govt's represent and foster. it is ridiculous and inappropriate to be anti-russian, but their present govt. is utterly despicable, and it is hard to ignore what kind of regimes russia has had, for say, the last few hundred years.
we must stand up to this very dangerous russian regime, while attempting to support and promote democratic forces and values there, support the brave! activists. of course it is an uphill battle, but whoever said that it would be easy...
roberto
robertoruss@yahoo.com
(roberto, 1 September 2008 07:48)
Dashnori i Satam:
> Russia cannot cut oiL one, it needs the money, two it has contracts and NEEDS to be seen a reliable supplier.
The mere threat to is enough as is apparent from the collapse of support for sanctions from both France & Germany.
And never say never.
> AMBO and Trans Adriatic Pipelines will come in play by 2011 (both through Pro-West Albania.) Once pipelines are in place, Russia will get some competition and cannot play that game the same way.
AMBO is not about competition - as the price of it's oil is expected to be significantly higher than the other pipelines, just cheaper than shipping it through the bosphorus.
AMBO is all about supply - in addition to the other pipelines. Even though it's oil will be more expensive, projected increases in supply coming from Russia/Caucauses are expected to be sufficient to meet the capacities of all the pipelines.
Energy card remains.
> unlike Russia where only Putin decided.
Saakashvili's ill-fated attempt to reclaim South Ossetia was a direct violation of the cease-fire that Georgia had agreed to in the UN.
Russian peacekeepers present in South Ossetia as a result of that agreement were killed in that assault.
If Russia hadn't reacted 'immediately', Saakashvili's imitation of 'Operation Storm' would've been a 'fait accompli'.
The decision to intervene was correct.
Only the scale of the intervention is debatable.
(peter, sydney, 1 September 2008 07:46)
bmrusila:"Finland and I may assure you that they do not consider joining NATO."
Few decades ago The Scandinavian countries did not consider seriously joining the EU (with Danmark being a single exception)Today all except Norway are Eu Members. Sweden and Finland are not yet NATO members, but sooner or later they will join! In there onwn time. They are in a sense members of NATO. Should they get attacked it is unlikely the NATO countries to stay neutral! While some of them may hope for the opposite - the Scandinavians to stay neutral in case of a major war between NATO and Russia!
This is typical Scandinavian privileged way: Norway is in NATO, not in EU, but in the Schengen zone, Sweden and Finland are in EU, but not in NATO. Sweden and Danmark are in EU, but not in the Eurozone.
Yet the tendency is clear. Europe of the many independant nations is a past. It is turning into an open space with a single currency, single citizenship etc. It needs a single deffence sysytem, which it could not provide without the US.
(nik, 2 September 2008 10:15)
I routinely access BBC, Spiegel, DieWelt, Figaro, Le Monde, Liberation just to name you few. I try to find that article on Finland's consideration. It was on Friday or Saturday. I don't remember on which site it was. The president and if I remember the PM spoke about it. I will still try to find it for you. I was very surprised by it.
(Joe, 1 September 2008 17:06)
Nothing will come out of tomorrow's EU meeting. They will ask Russia "to be nice" to their small neighbors, "respect them" and the EU countries will be good partners and they will promise to pay their oil and gas bills promptely like always. It will be a confirmation for the Russians that they are solidely in the saddle and can continue their imperialistic policies.
(Joe, 31 August 2008 19:26)
So what exactly do you expect the EU to do with Russia?Go to war for Georgia?
Saakashvilli is either a fool or a gambler or he acted
with the full knowledge and connivance of the US.It seems to me that the US with the number of military advisers in Georgia couldn't be totally in the dark of what the Georgian president was about to do.
Imagine a hypothetical situation where Georgia was a member of NATO and the west had to intervene militarily on behalf of Georgia.Think of the consequences.
You define Russia as imperialist without giving an
explanation as to how you arrive at your definition.How
many military bases do the Russians have in foreign countries?How many countries did they attack the last twenty years?
The recent events in Caucasus
is the result of US policies towards Russia.The last straw
for the Russians is the US decision to install missile systems in Poland & Czech republic.How would the US feel if the Russians decided to install intercontinental missiles in Iran or N Korea?
Russia can hurt as much the West as they can hurt her.
(Leonidas, 31 August 2008 21:22)
My fellow countryman is an embarrasment. He stood and agreed with 'Blur' when it's US masters asked for assistance to illegally bomb Serbia.
He is an outright hypocrite of astronomical proportion. Thank God I am no longer in the UK.
Brown you are a disgrace, the Scottish National Party will wipe the floor with you come the next General. Election.
(Mr. David J. Jones, 31 August 2008 13:17)
First of all, you know that America is thousands of kilometers away from Europe and does not have any real threat from Russia that it cannot deal with, as opposed to Europe who is right next door to them and does not have the luxury of an ocean between them or tons of ice in beween.
Secondly, the situation with Russia at the moment is fragile. While I do not agree with their new imperialist look and fear that another European country may be next, Europe is not self-sufficient like the States and relies on Russia for oil and gas. Unprecedented action (both diplomatic and coercive would be detrimental to the people) needs to be considered carefully before standing up to Russia without fear of repercussions, and a harsh, abrasive reaction (a la Bush or MacCaine), would hurt Europe even more than Russia, while America feels nothing, like with WW2 it was.
While of course, Poles, Lithuanians, Hungarians, Latvians, Estonians, Czechs, Ukrainians and Finns have felt Soviet brutality and should stand up to Russian aggression, I disagree that the state leaders make such actions and statements that put us at risk, when we have Germany, France, Netherlands and UK far behind the CEE countries that be hit first, but at least they are considering the basic needs of their civilians, which Russia could quite easily cut. You know how the Russians are.
(Peter Sudyka, 31 August 2008 18:41)
I responded already to the same question of yours recently. I will repeat it once more. Russia did not have the means for foreign invasions or bases in the last 18-20 years. Lately however they approached Cuba for bases but Cuba declined.
Also I was stunned to read yesterday that even Finland is considering joining NATO because they don't feel safe anymore as a neutral country due to Russia's agressivness.
You are a great defender of Russia (seems like their lawyer) but can you tell me why all their neighbors are so afraid of them? No small country is ever afraid of a peaceful big country except in case of Russia.
Look Belgium is not afraid of France or Germany or England. Danemark or Austria or the Czech Republic are not afraid of Germany. Why your dear Russia is so bellicose?
(Joe, 1 September 2008 02:32)
> Brown said: "When Russia has a grievance over an issue such as South Ossetia, it should act multilaterally by consent rather than unilaterally by force."
Is it my imagination, or is hypocrisy becoming the norm rather than the exception - especially when it comes to the so-called 'leaders of the western world'.
> The prime minister said he had told Mr Medvedev to expect a "determined response" from European leaders.
Seems that 'determined response' is wilting even as we speak. Both France & germany appear to be 'backing away' from any talk of 'sanctions' being imposed.
Something to do with this perhaps?
>His comments came amid fears Russia could cut oil and gas flows in the row over Georgia.
And Mr Brown's response?
> "We must more rapidly build relationships with other producers of oil and gas," Brown said.
Europe & the UK can always do so Mr Brown. Of course the price of energy will be higher if you deny yourselves access to cheap russian supplies. And of course the little problem that all this is occurring during the worst economic crisis the UK has faced for 60 years can be safely ignored - can't it Mr Brown.
So let's look at the west's options to counter 'russian aggression' in the caucauses.
Military intervention? Nope.
Economic sanctions? Nope.
Diplomatic intervention? Nope.
Empty rhetoric?
Now that you can do.
(peter, sydney, 31 August 2008 11:20)
Also I was stunned to read yesterday that even Finland is considering joining NATO because they don't feel safe anymore as a neutral country due to Russia's agressivness.
(Joe)
I would like you to send a link about Finland’s consideration to join NATO after latest events. I am very much related to Finland thus regularly follow the news from Finland and I may assure you that they do not consider joining NATO. The majority of Finns is against NATO, so I really don’t know where you get this information. I also recommend you to find information on great bilateral relation between Russia and Finland.
(bmrusila, 1 September 2008 15:22)